INTERVIEW_JOÃO CARLOS RODRIGUES

Cinema writer and researcher João Carlos Rodrigues, born in Rio de Janeiro, is the author of “O negro brasileiro e o cinema” (Afro-Brazilians and cinema). Published in 1988, the book surveys the participation of Afro-Brazilians in the country’s film production, discussing gaps, victories, and stereotypes in Brazilian cinema. Here, Rodrigues talks about these victories, and about the challenges that are yet to be matched.

By Helio Hara

Approximately 15 years after the release of the book “O negro brasileiro e o cinema” are there any noticeable, considerable, concrete changes in the participation of Afro-Brazilians in Brazil’s film productions?
Yes. Some new film makers have come up, many new actors, and the themes are broader. It seems to me that Brazil is slowly becoming more democratic. We haven’t yet reached an ideal world, but things have changed, and they have changed for the better.

In your text for the exhibition catalogue you point out that as long as Afro-descendants remain in the lowest strata of Brazilian society, film makers will simply inspire themselves in our reality (by presenting outlaw characters). Do you think that portraying a minority (that belongs in higher strata) would be a good strategy for raising the self esteem of Afro-Brazilians?
This is a very complex situation. If the Brazilian cinema depicts Black people only as outcasts, it will help perpetuate the low self esteem of Afro-Brazilian people. If, on the other hand, the movies present Black people solely as middle class people, it will be denying reality, because this privileged elite does not represent the majority. I believe that the best choice is for those two trends to coexist democratically.

“Filhas do vento” (Daughters of the wind) features the largest Black cast ever seen in Brazilian cinema, and is hailed as a landmark. Is there a favorable trend towards this, so that the movie does not become a single, isolated effort?
It all depends on the receptiveness of the Black audience, and of the Brazilian audience as a whole, regarding the film. It is a good movie, but that alone is not enough. It must be screened in theaters across neighborhoods of all kinds, no matter what skin tone. I believe that the movie can become more than just an isolated phenomenon: it was awarded at Gramado [Film Festival], had a positive review in the [American newspaper] “New York Times” etc. But the movie must be seen, and I am not so sure that the distributing company, Riofilme, is up to the task. But let us cross our fingers. In São Paulo, Jefferson De, another Black film maker whose first feature film is on the way, has a similar perspective to that of Joel Zito [Araújo]. Therefore, “Filhas do vento” is no longer an isolated phenomenon.

In later years, commercial TV channels in Brazil have included minorities such as people from Northeast Brazil and gay people. Does that have something to do with the “politically correct” trend? If so, would the inclusion of Afro-Brazilians be a natural and positive phenomenon? Or would it be just another trend?
I don’t think this is a politically correct trend. This type of thing does not happen by chance, neither by kindness. It is a commercial strategy. Advertising agencies, as well as the fabricants of these products, know that there are very specific market segments to be explored: children, women, Black people, homosexuals, local minorities... And they invest in these segments. But that’s not a bad thing: it goes to show that these people are now considered as potential consumers, which they weren’t before. Anyway, even though it makes social scientists and populist politicians mad, we can see some income distribution, albeit informal.

In countries such as Great Britain, TV shows presented by Black and/or aged people are common. In Brazil, though, they are extremely rare, and most people in these shows are young and light-skinned (with very plain hair). Is it possible to maintain this image for a long time, even though it is completely detached from reality?
You can’t fool all the people all the time. But I recall Black people on TV ever since the sixties, such as Noite Ilustrada, Glória Maria, Aizita Nascimento, and a few others. And Cid Moreira is old and white-haired, as is Boris Casoy. We don’t know for sure where did the image of the young White male with light-colored eyes come from (although it supposedly accounts for 51% of the national population), but it did not come from the United States, where media is multiracial ever since the seventies. That seems to me like something created by the TV people from Brazil. It will come to an end, and it won’t take too long.